LS/Vtec pros and cons?

[billybong]

Ive been doing alot of research on doing the ls/vtec swap in my eg coupe. but as always people have bad things to say about it. so i figure i just make a pros and cons post to see what people on this forum think about it.

also my eg was automatic so im doing the tranny swap as well. if anyone has any pedals or anything ghag will help with the tranny swap lmk please thank you:thumbup:

[poon]

I dont think there are any cons if it is a proper build. Just a common misconception that they cant be revved.

[EvilGrinner]

Like poon said, if the build is done right it's doesn't have many issues. Most of the stories you hear of the LS/Vtec going wrong are people who cut the wrong corners to keep cost and/or time down and have it blow up on them.

[03scgt]

just get some quality parts with some arp hardware and you should have no problems

[billybong]

iight yeaaa ive been hearing alot of things that go wrong but most of them could have been prevented if swap was done correctly and good the 1st time

[dscivicdx]

if you want some piece of mind, upgrade the ls rod bolts to arp's and you should be good to 8k rpm.

[88_shfonda]

it doesnt matter what the swap is... u never cut corners unless ur a fucking idiot. take the time and get tit right. took me a few weeks to complete my swap. mainly because im just learning about all of this and i did it myself.

[APPLEJUICE]

iight yeaaa ive been hearing alot of things that go wrong but most of them could have been prevented if swap was done correctly and good the 1st time

FUK_JDM:
Listen to what you were just told. Dont cut corners and you will be fine. In mine I had GSR internals. I used to rev the crap out of it. Ran great till the day i sold her. May she rest in peace :(

PS: dude i cant belive that there are still ppl out there who are still wondering about honda engines.. No disses towards you or anything. But a honda engine is like LEGO's. Slap it together and drive it till it blows up. :tongue:

[Ej1_sleeper]

like everyone else stated build it right and youll be fine. Ive had a few friends that had issues with them (one who cant seem to do anything right). blew a y8 single cam, Ls/vtec, and a GSR and then he figured out it was the head...

there are so many build threads on HT running around. grab one and go for it. Best bet if you want to stay stock internals is replace the Ls rod bolts for some ARPs (the weak link in LS motors). Other then that get the right ls/vtec conversion kit and revv the piss out of it.

[VTC_WS6]

The single biggest 'con' of the matter is the fact that the R/S ratio of the B18A/B bottom end simply isn't very desirable at higher rpm where piston speed really get's hairy, that's where extreme side-loading of the cylinder walls and added bearing stress take place. Obviously a well built setup can be made to handle the added stress but there's no denying the laws of physics and it's affect on parts as stress surpasses the 'expected' levels.

[88_shfonda]

PS: dude i cant belive that there are still ppl out there who are still wondering about honda engines.. No disses towards you or anything. But a honda engine is like LEGO's. Slap it together and drive it till it blows up. :tongue:
lol
ya there not that hard to figure out.

[dscivicdx]

The single biggest 'con' of the matter is the fact that the R/S ratio of the B18A/B bottom end simply isn't very desirable at higher rpm where piston speed really get's hairy, that's where extreme side-loading of the cylinder walls and added bearing stress take place. Obviously a well built setup can be made to handle the added stress but there's no denying the laws of physics and it's affect on parts as stress surpasses the 'expected' levels.

yeah, but i have seen built ls bottom ends spin to 9.5k daily for years with no problem. a completely stock ls short block with upgraded rod bolts should be good to 8.5k with no problems.

[poon]

The r/s ratio is important, but I think it is exaggerated. Proper parts and tuning and you will be fine.

[billybong]

thanx for the advice. so basicly ill be fine with just a few internal upgrades.

now about the head. i was goin to buy a gsr head but i hear the b16 has alot better airflow.

[02vortec]

The single biggest 'con' of the matter is the fact that the R/S ratio of the B18A/B bottom end simply isn't very desirable at higher rpm where piston speed really get's hairy, that's where extreme side-loading of the cylinder walls and added bearing stress take place. Obviously a well built setup can be made to handle the added stress but there's no denying the laws of physics and it's affect on parts as stress surpasses the 'expected' levels.


To much data in this thread!
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c298/RonDogg81/Net%20Pics/DatasMotivationalPoster.jpg

[Billy]

thanx for the advice. so basicly ill be fine with just a few internal upgrades.

now about the head. i was goin to buy a gsr head but i hear the b16 has alot better airflow.
i does flow better but a little harder to find.

[billybong]

is there a diffrence as to building it?

[poon]

The gsr port angles are steeper, and it has a smaller combustion chamber, and the different flange/stud arrangement for the intake manifold. Get whatever head is available, the difference will probably be negligible on a street motor.

[VTC_WS6]

yeah, but i have seen built ls bottom ends spin to 9.5k daily for years with no problem. a completely stock ls short block with upgraded rod bolts should be good to 8.5k with no problems.


And I've read of people who claim to have seen Elvis changing oil in a Wal-mart in Utah... I didn't belive them either.

FWIW, I've 'seen' B18 B sleeves split wide open (#3 topside) on more than one occasion, no measure of tuning or choice of piston material will help the situation short of sleeveing the block.

To say something can be done is not the same as saying it should be done. :D

[J240sx]

B16 all the way....GSR too much of a headache with the manifold and all.

[poon]

How is the manifold more of a headache? lol.

[VTC_WS6]

B16 all the way....GSR too much of a headache with the manifold and all.


Skank2 ftw!!

[Slide89]

B16 all the way....GSR too much of a headache with the manifold and all.

the hell? headache? ............................not

[96ekhatch]

yeah i got a skunkt 2 manifold and its fine. on the other hand the gay ass gsr throttlebody and the wrap around cable is another question. Ls/v is fine. That hole stroke / rod ratio crap is almost a myth,lol. Just put it together with quality bolts and you should have any problems.

By the way gsr motors owns b series

[J240sx]

GSR??? No props to the B20?

[dscivicdx]

And I've read of people who claim to have seen Elvis changing oil in a Wal-mart in Utah... I didn't belive them either.

FWIW, I've 'seen' B18 B sleeves split wide open (#3 topside) on more than one occasion, no measure of tuning or choice of piston material will help the situation short of sleeveing the block.

To say something can be done is not the same as saying it should be done. :D

i wouldnt say to do it if i didnt know it was reliable.
what were those motors spinning to? how many miles? stock pistons and rods?

[VTC_WS6]

i wouldnt say to do it if i didnt know it was reliable.
what were those motors spinning to? how many miles? stock pistons and rods?


Let me ask you a question, just how sure are you of the milleage of any of these swaps people run around with? Do you have any idea how many hands that motor might have gone through or how many actual mile might be on that block?

Unless you're building something from the ground up, and let's face it most of the Wendy's working 16-19 year olds with the uber JDMizzle y0! hatches running around aren't, you leaving it up to chance by taking a P72/PR3 head and slapping it on there. Even if you do go with pistons and rods, the ductile iron sleeve liners in 90% of the catastrophic LS/VTEC failures I've seen are the weak point, typically starting with spider cracking in the rear most (load side) of the walls and spreading in a radial pattern torwads the top and are especially susceptible to splitting where the water jacket meets the outter sleeve wall at #3.

I never said you can't run a LS/VTEC and get away with it, hell thousands of people have, but you can't deny physics and the reality is, what are you getting from that extra 30cc that you can't get from swinging a C1 an extra 500rpm with the proper cam/intake setup?

[VTC_WS6]

That hole stroke / rod ratio crap is almost a myth,lol.

.........:sprachlos020:

Wow.

[96ekhatch]

in the end of the day it is. Because we arent talking about motors from the factory. LIkw you said we are putting motors togther with unknown mileages. To say anything is gonna last is impossible. Hell to say a freshly build motor wont break is crazy. But to say well dont run an ls/v because longevity really takes a hit is insane. First most honda owners cant keep a car the way it is for more than a month,lol. and even if if you put a buget ls/v together for what 700-1000 bucks if the thing makes it 50000 miles you got your money out of it. I say put it together beat the living piss out of it and when something breaks spend 200 bucks and rebuild it. In the end of the day the most expensive thing in the engine bay is the damn distibuter and they go bad all the time. I mean rod/stroke ratio can the really say o 1.6 or whatever is the perfect # and the more the worse come on thats just somebody making up some shit. Ill tell you i see way more old as ls teggys than any other car in the world(expept mustangs). So build it and blow it you dont really know a honda till you blow a few up...

[dscivicdx]

Let me ask you a question, just how sure are you of the milleage of any of these swaps people run around with? Do you have any idea how many hands that motor might have gone through or how many actual mile might be on that block?

Unless you're building something from the ground up, and let's face it most of the Wendy's working 16-19 year olds with the uber JDMizzle y0! hatches running around aren't, you leaving it up to chance by taking a P72/PR3 head and slapping it on there. Even if you do go with pistons and rods, the ductile iron sleeve liners in 90% of the catastrophic LS/VTEC failures I've seen are the weak point, typically starting with spider cracking in the rear most (load side) of the walls and spreading in a radial pattern torwads the top and are especially susceptible to splitting where the water jacket meets the outter sleeve wall at #3.

I never said you can't run a LS/VTEC and get away with it, hell thousands of people have, but you can't deny physics and the reality is, what are you getting from that extra 30cc that you can't get from swinging a C1 an extra 500rpm with the proper cam/intake setup?

never once did i say that it wasnt better to use a c1 short block if your going to spin to high rpm's nor do i deny the laws of physics.
im also not questioning your knowlege, you obviously are a smart guy and seem to be a pretty knowledgeable mechanic.
what i am saying is that when done properly, its a reliable setup.
are there going to be failures? sure, but the odds of that are always 50/50.

not to be a dick or snobby and i know you dont know me, but the people i know arent 16-19 ricers and most are very good at building and tuning motors and cars. i have hung out with and been friends with most of the well known and well respected import people in tampa, where i lived from 98-05, before i moved back here.