E85 How to

[Jeffie ON JUICE]

KInda have no clue, what would u have to change on my mustang to run E85.
I hear and see alot more car doing it just kinda wondering what there doing and changing.
Please and thank u and post pics lol

[Anthony]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines

new fuel lines,bigger pump and injectors

[Marks-2gDSM]

http://www.e85mustangs.com/tuning.html

[Jeffie ON JUICE]

ok so i read both things would need a Kenne Bell Boost a pump, and maybe injectors but i'm only make 354rwhp NA so my injectors are at like 65%-75%
and for the bottle i was going to do a 1 gallon fuel cell where the battery is
But who around here tunes E85 or would it be smart to go on the other coast?
i've got a semi full time job so i have a little money and this seems like a good idea

[Anthony]

if your doing a standalone tank setup might as well do it for 110 or 116.you wont use it enought to justify the drive to the other coast to save a few bucks.youll spend more on gas getting there and back then you would just buying a jug of race gas

[pdexta]

Theoretically tuning for E85 should be the same as 93. Widebands actually read a deviation from stoich rather than a true AFR. Tune to the same ratios, find MBT and back it off a few degrees and you should be good to go.

If we ever get E85 here I'm definitely converting my car.

[Jeffie ON JUICE]

i never drive the car have had the same tank of gas in it for the past 6 weeks, i guess at times when i get some money i always turn nigger rich WTF
why the fuck can't we get a E85 over here

[SurfWagon]

We've been running it for about 40k miles (live in Miami). But sorry, don't know specifics about mustangs.

Generally what you're gonna need to do is increase fuel delivery by ~30% because the fuel density is down by that much. Sounds like your injectors have a bit of head room, but I would really bump it up to give you atleast 15% IDC head room...cause you're gonna up the power some day. Fuel pump upgrade's always worth it.

Fuel lines and o-rings = nitrile. Most stock lines are OK with e85. The eating of lines happened in the 70's and 80s with rubber. Aluminum is a no-no unless anodized. Make sure your fuel filters are not rubber --> gummy mess.

e85 likes to run richer lambda than gas...but that just means more torque. Pretty much tuning is the same except it likes more timing (up to peak pressure). You can lean it up nicely at cruise.

The other links are good info....now you gotta get e85 over there

[JU5TA GT]

whys it needed for a moderate hp car like jeffs?
jw, i honestly dont know...

[JP]

It's not "needed" but he can likely make more power with it.

Definitely needs to be tuned richer, and will need everything that has been mentioned here. Not only due to the much higher volume need, but it's corrosive properties are also very different, which is often another reason why pump, lines, injectors, etc need to be changed.


Just for reference, switching from 118nos race gas to alky I literally double the fuel flow of my nitrous system; E85/E98's burn ratio and lambda are closer to alky than gas.

As far as the AFR, I'm not sure the specifics for ethanol based fuels, but again I know they are closer to alky than gas. With gas you're often shooting for 12.0-12.5:1 @ WOT, with alky, we're shooting for 4.0-4.5:1; big difference.

[SurfWagon]

The lamdas are the same. Lamda is just representing stiochiometric AFR has been burned and percieved by the O2 sensor. Obviously, there are a lot of factors that are in there and that statement is oversimplified in the real world. But the peak tq rich is richer than with gasoline. From what I've seen, peak tq rich lives somewhere in the 7-8 AFR region. Not sure of the exact number but it's been published.

Now if you just tune off of lamda and not AFR, use a "gasoline" AFR of 11.2ish. That just means that the computer reads a lamda value and then converts it over to what the AFR should have been if gasoline were used. With the innovate LC-1 you can program it to tell you "alky" AFRs, but it's really not needed.

I have no experience with e85 and nitrous, but wow those AFRs sound rich. Looks like it works well though! Where do you get your e85?

[SickSVT]

E85 rocks. For aorund $2.45 a gallon your rolling around on "race gas" essentially.

You need exactly what Anthony said in his first post.

A bunch of lightning guys have already done it.

Only down side is that your using about 30% more fuel consumption than that of 93 octane. So that does jack up the price a bit for fuel if you do the math.
But for the power gains vs price it rocks.

The only downside is, there is no place to get E85 locally. Even in Tampa the only place to get E85 is thru the goverment, and they only sell it to local municipalitys. (sp?)

Thats why I did not switch over to E85..... Getting the fuel is a bitch and a pain in the ass.

If they ever do open up local pumps to get the stuff, I will switch over to it in a heartbeat.

[02Avantimola]

Anthony, I dynod the Silver car you saw on E85 yesterday. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and enjoy. Its not bad for only running an actual 21psi spike and holding 20.5ish!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?356233-Dynoing-my-E85-file-on-thursday-5-to-guess-right!!!/page2

[02Avantimola]

I usually lose 3-4 mpg in city and 4 on the hyway. Enjoy the videos though boys! Special thanks to my brother. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

[02Avantimola]

Theoretically tuning for E85 should be the same as 93. Widebands actually read a deviation from stoich rather than a true AFR. Tune to the same ratios, find MBT and back it off a few degrees and you should be good to go.

If we ever get E85 here I'm definitely converting my car.

You need at least 25% more fuel on WOT. Also your timing can be increased. I got a safe 15 more deg of timing throughout the range.

[Jeffie ON JUICE]

could u have a tune to switch from E85 to reg 93tune?

[SickSVT]

Where do you get your E85 at?

[02Avantimola]

If you have the injector and fueling to do both. I have two tunes I can switch back and forth from. Anthony has seen my car run on pump (just for a short 2nd gear pull, if he was watchin when I left lol). Thats why I asked if you all had E85 I wanted to take him for a ride. 496ftbls to the wheels feels great in that thing because it happens at 3560rpm. -Anthony- I wonder what the yellow car will be able to do on E85, those new HTA center sections for the GT28s flow more than 3071s! it should be a badass on that excel-DFI standalone. I'm excited to show it off to you man! I'll roll down sometime this summer.

[02Avantimola]

Where do you get your E85 at?

I'm back in MI

[02Avantimola]

You guys should check out my link I posted let me know what you all think. I was proud of those numbers on only 20ish adverage psi. normally my turbos are run most efficiently at 24-25 psi, I forgot to adjust the wastegates when I put the turbos on and my spring rate is too low to push that much boost right now. Check it out.

[Jeffie ON JUICE]

First exit at the end of the alligator alley its $2.84 cent today is where E85 is

[02Avantimola]

in MIA?

[02Avantimola]

Do they have alligator guards..? Random, but you know that gas station, the only one on I-75 on the reservation.. What a shit hole of a place.. It took me an hour to fill up a 21FT boat..

[JP]

There is Bartow Ethanol, but I don't know if they sell to the public or not.

I have not run ethanol myself. We've run 118nos fuel and methanol(alky). As I said, with the blown methanol combo our AFR stays around 4.0:1 @ WOT, 6.4:1 is "stoich" as compared to 14.7:1 for gas.

[Jeffie ON JUICE]

i have to one day replace my injectors to larger ones anyways and i guess a gt500 fuel pump, just seems like it would be worth it for the weekends to be able to throw some e85 in it switch the tune and have a fun weekend with a little less worries about shit fucking up.

[SickSVT]

ahhhh that explains it... Thought you were in marco island.
I was like WTF, I researched all around and couldnt find one local source for E85....

[02Avantimola]

ahhhh that explains it... Thought you were in marco island.
I was like WTF, I researched all around and couldnt find one local source for E85....

lol yeah, did you see the dyno sheet? not bad for a 2.7 eh? its no blown 5.4 but it does the job for a DD

[SickSVT]

No I missed the dyno sheet. Got a link?
(I'm slow today) (actually I'm slow everyday)

[SurfWagon]

By first exit at the end of alligator alley, do you mean on the Miami end? You're not talking about the Naples end correct?

We end up carrying an extra 7 gal over with us for autoX weekends. Would be nice to just fill it up in Naples

[JP]

He means the Miami side.

[Jeffie ON JUICE]

Sorry yeah Miami side, they keep on talking about bring it here would be nice. probaly in 10 years will get it

[Rossim22]

Sorry yeah Miami side, they keep on talking about bring it here would be nice. probaly in 10 years will get it

Ten years we probably wont need ethanol.

[Jeffie ON JUICE]

hell yeah we will the arabs will shut down oil, the first time we drill off Florida some mexican is going to fuck up and spill it all up and down the coast. We will be left with nothing. Hopefully by then weed will be legal and will all have a grow farm somewhere making millions

[Rossim22]

hell yeah we will the arabs will shut down oil, the first time we drill off Florida some mexican is going to fuck up and spill it all up and down the coast. We will be left with nothing. Hopefully by then weed will be legal and will all have a grow farm somewhere making millions

Nah, how's weed gonna be legal when they're shutting down all headshops in July? That bill was passed so I no longer have any faith in our state. Plus, I couldnt afford for weed to become legal. :devillook

[02Avantimola]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?356233-Dynoing-my-E85-file-on-thursday-5-to-guess-right!!!/page2

scroll towards the bottom