Camshaft Help

[06GTO]

so I just got done with my first couple mods (cold air intake, headers, and exhaust) and am now loooking to get a new cam. Im totally clueless about camshafts and which one to get. After I get the cam I will be done with performance mods for awhile. If anyone has any ideas please let me know!

thanks,

Ryan-

[Metallicarokerx]

First off let me say right now don't listen to anyone who recommends a cam without asking your goals. The biggest cam doesn't always perform better.

I believe you said your car is not a daily driver right? A bigger cam will be less DD friendly. Where do you want your powerband, are you going to get on it stoplight to stoplight, or more highway racing? Do you like TQ more than horsepower? Do you plan on gears? Heads? lol

[Adam]

megadeath for the win.

[Metallicarokerx]

First off let me say right now don't listen to anyone who recommends a cam without asking your goals. The biggest cam doesn't always perform better.

I believe you said your car is not a daily driver right? A bigger cam will be less DD friendly. Where do you want your powerband, are you going to get on it stoplight to stoplight, or more highway racing? Do you like TQ more than horsepower? Do you plan on gears? Heads? lol

megadeath for the win.

Prime example.

[Adam]

Prime example.

Hahaha I just like the name.

[titter]

Small:
http://www.engpwrsys.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=8
Big:
http://www.engpwrsys.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=10

These lobes are very gentle on the valve train. Get a good dual valve spring, PRC Golds will be plenty for either cam. The first version of that cam with 243 heads, and a stock LS6 made 430 through an auto, and converter. The second will be a little less DD friendly, but you will make some power. I plan on going with very similar specs to the first one soon.

[Metallicarokerx]

For MY needs I want a torquer v2 cam. Maybe check that out.

[06GTO]

First off let me say right now don't listen to anyone who recommends a cam without asking your goals. The biggest cam doesn't always perform better.

I believe you said your car is not a daily driver right? A bigger cam will be less DD friendly. Where do you want your powerband, are you going to get on it stoplight to stoplight, or more highway racing? Do you like TQ more than horsepower? Do you plan on gears? Heads? lol


although its not my daily driver, I do drive it quite a bit. I dont want such a big cam that its going to be a pain in the ass and I also dont want a sleeper cam either.... Basically when I drive the car its just around town or at the 1/8 mile track... not too much highway stuff. I want a cam thats going to be my best option for now and will work best for where the car is at right now. I do plan on getting gears and heads down the road but with my wedding coming up in Oct, those mods are gunna have to wait for a bit... like I said im totally lost when it comes to cams and how to pick one out so I hope this will help you guys to help me find the right one!

[stevieg]

your going to have to looking in to converter also

[Metallicarokerx]

although its not my daily driver, I do drive it quite a bit. I dont want such a big cam that its going to be a pain in the ass and I also dont want a sleeper cam either.... Basically when I drive the car its just around town or at the 1/8 mile track... not too much highway stuff. I want a cam thats going to be my best option for now and will work best for where the car is at right now. I do plan on getting gears and heads down the road but with my wedding coming up in Oct, those mods are gunna have to wait for a bit... like I said im totally lost when it comes to cams and how to pick one out so I hope this will help you guys to help me find the right one!

I think you will like the torquer 2. Also maybe look into street sweeper cams. I would say anything from a 224/224 range to 234/234 would be good for you. Keep the lift around or under .600 IMO.

[Metallicarokerx]

your going to have to looking in to converter also
This.. I forgot to say that earlyer.

[titter]

I think you will like the torquer 2. Also maybe look into street sweeper cams. I would say anything from a 224/224 range to 234/234 would be good for you. Keep the lift around or under .600 IMO.

Jeesh, just copy my cam suggestions! EPS lobes > XE-R lobes. They make the same power, and have less wear on the valve train!

Actually here, Ed Curtis testing Pat G lol

Now you're making me smile Ed. :) That looks like one of the countless comments fired at you over the years wondering how your FTI lobes were better than others since their numbers at .006",.050", and .200" looked so similar to catalog lobes. You know the answer to this, but for the benefit of everyone else...

Here are 3 very similar lobes (EPS, XFI, XE-R)
Lobe, .006" .050" .200" Lift w/1.7 rocker
EPS 279 230 151 .600"
XFI 280 230 154 .612"
XE-R 279 230 151 .592"

While all 3 have similar duration at .006" and .050", the EPS lobes are much smoother at acceleration and jerk than XE-R lobes (which are the harshest of the 3 according to Billy Godbold). The XE-R lobe don't always work well with beehive springs even though they are a sub .600" lift lobe. High levels of acceleration and jerk are the culprits here. XFI lobes were designed originally for the smaller base circled SBC cam cores. On the SBCs, they are some of the best, but as they grew to the 55mm LS1 cam cores, they showed some of the compromises that were given to it to work well on the smaller core.

The EPS lobes, like the newer LSL lobes, had extensive Spintron testing on the LS1 55mm cam journal size and as a result, don't have the compromises of being grown from a SBC cam journal size. With acceleration and jerk more optimized, there was better valvetrain stability and rpm limits began to rise. Motors could rev higher with the same springs or could rpm the same with less spring. This is one of the reasons why the EPS lobes are very happy with a beehive spring whereas the XE-R lobes are not (even though on paper they look nearly identical).

So while the lobes look very similar to a 5 year old lobe carried by somebody else, it's doesn't necessarily mean they're the same. But like I said Ed, you know this. But not everybody else on the board knows this. ;)

[ls2bait]

youtube

[Anthony]

youtube

:rofl1:

[stevieg]

youtube

lol win

[06GTO]

youtube


thanks for the help...

[styles2769]

Listen to Titter, go with the EPS lobes and never have a regret. You cant go wrong with already proven results. EPS is a bit more gentle on the valve-train, while at the same time making more peak power, power under curve, torque under curve, low-end power.

It makes me wonder why people are still installing (not using) xe-r cams. Also saying to stay in a range of 224/224 - 234/234 is a rather wide range to choose a cam out of. Not only that but you also have the LSA as well as the different valve events to factor in.

I chose to go with an XFI cam over the older XE-R cam, I loved it and it really seemed like the best lobes out at the time. Further research being done by cam companies lead to LSx lobes. These were basically XFI lobes on steroids. Small duration and very high lift, they were rather brutal on valve-train. The XFI lobes were actually easier on the valve-train when compared to XE-R.

The tricky part to LS1 cams is the fact that so many of them are out. Part of the reason to this is because 112-114lsa LS1 cams even when poorly designed will not hurt power much. The LS1 world went so long thinking that 'decently" designed cams were in fact "the next best thing cam design" until the recent release of EPS camreally starting making people think.

Not to say that EPS cams are the absolute best. For an all out track cam, there are better choices. EPS lobes are currently just a greater street cam then all other OTS lobe design.

I am gathering that your an auto. in that case EPS lobes/FTI convertor/3.73 gear and you have yourself a really fun/powerful, streetable, dependable car.

Your best bet would to get in touch with the cam designer, talk it over with them what you are expecting out of the car and go from there.

[Sharad]

http://www.flowtechinduction.com/

[/thread]

[Metallicarokerx]

Jeesh, just copy my cam suggestions! EPS lobes > XE-R lobes. They make the same power, and have less wear on the valve train!

Actually here, Ed Curtis testing Pat G lol
I agree lol, I just think the 234/246 is a bit big. I would keep it around 234/234.
youtube
:rofl1:
Listen to Titter, go with the EPS lobes and never have a regret. You cant go wrong with already proven results. EPS is a bit more gentle on the valve-train, while at the same time making more peak power, power under curve, torque under curve, low-end power.

It makes me wonder why people are still installing (not using) xe-r cams. Also saying to stay in a range of 224/224 - 234/234 is a rather wide range to choose a cam out of. Not only that but you also have the LSA as well as the different valve events to factor in.

I chose to go with an XFI cam over the older XE-R cam, I loved it and it really seemed like the best lobes out at the time. Further research being done by cam companies lead to LSx lobes. These were basically XFI lobes on steroids. Small duration and very high lift, they were rather brutal on valve-train. The XFI lobes were actually easier on the valve-train when compared to XE-R.

The tricky part to LS1 cams is the fact that so many of them are out. Part of the reason to this is because 112-114lsa LS1 cams even when poorly designed will not hurt power much. The LS1 world went so long thinking that 'decently" designed cams were in fact "the next best thing cam design" until the recent release of EPS camreally starting making people think.

Not to say that EPS cams are the absolute best. For an all out track cam, there are better choices. EPS lobes are currently just a greater street cam then all other OTS lobe design.

I am gathering that your an auto. in that case EPS lobes/FTI convertor/3.73 gear and you have yourself a really fun/powerful, streetable, dependable car.

Your best bet would to get in touch with the cam designer, talk it over with them what you are expecting out of the car and go from there.
This. I didn't have the time to talk about lobes or LSA.
http://www.flowtechinduction.com/

[/thread]
Ed is the MAN!!

[demetri01ws6]

226/230 .598 .600 113+4 EPS lobes.

[ls2bait]

thanks for the help...

it was a joke dude relax. id give thunder racing or more directly pat g. i dont know if he is still doing this or not. but have him spec you a cam. it will work. flat out dude knows his shit. after reading what i did when i was putting my engine together i would never do anothr off the shelf cam. also make sure you degree it when you install it, of the 3 cams ive had the closest was 2 1/2* off. one was as much as 6* off.

[styles2769]

Pat is still doing his thing, has crazy knowledge of cams but I kinda feel like he is starting to get lazy with custom specs. After he gave me my specs, He gave out about 20 more spec sheets with all the same info on them with either 112+2 or 114+4 lsa. Mine was 111+3lsa I believe but it just kinda rubbed me the wrong way seeing the same cam specs pop up right after i got my sheet for a few weeks and then another set of specs.

[AFTERMATH]

We have one that is a badass cam. PM me if interested

[titter]

of the 3 cams ive had the closest was 2 1/2* off. one was as much as 6* off.

Good advice!

Pat is still doing his thing, has crazy knowledge of cams but I kinda feel like he is starting to get lazy with custom specs. After he gave me my specs, He gave out about 20 more spec sheets with all the same info on them with either 112+2 or 114+4 lsa. Mine was 111+3lsa I believe but it just kinda rubbed me the wrong way seeing the same cam specs pop up right after i got my sheet for a few weeks and then another set of specs.

What works, works. If it worked well in your combo, then of course he would sell those specs. You would do the same. I will be going with a EPS lobe that will be spec'd by Pat G. Dimitri's old car also was a EPS lobe cam, that Pat G did, and it made some decent power.

To sum it up, contact someone who can custom tailor the cam to your combo. The price is nearly the same as a shelf cam, and in most cases, exactly the same. The results will be better. Just a win win all around.

[styles2769]

What I said isn't to be taken in the wrong way at all, Pat has a good rep and for a good reason. Even cam guru's like predator-z have a hard time getting people to go to them. Pred did make a very nice torque monster cam, but he is hit or miss, Pat was spot on with mine and from everyone I know he spec'd cams for they always got exactly what they asked for if not more. I asked to hit 400rwhp with unported 98 heads, ls6 intake and bolt-ons while being very street friendly, he said it would be a hard task but we will get close. We both know my car never dyno'd without tossing the D/S out, it hit 394 to the wheels at 5800 rpms, 500 rpms shy of peak, made incredible torque down low. When i told Pat that, he responded saying I was more optimistic about the potential then he was, but he was completely honest and upfront about it. He was wrong and I was right, and only because he didn't want to get my hopes up and have the car under perform.

With the new cam lobes now and with the better intake manifolds out, the next small change is going to be how these cylinder heads get ported. its the minor details that go along way and now its easier then ever to make a 500rwhp combo out o fa 346/347 ci. LS1's.

If your gonna do a cam, if your gonna do heads, full exhaust, do it once, do it right, and do you research. I was often criticized about buying so many different head/cam/intake/nitrous combo's just to turn around and sell everything. Reason that happened so much is because I started out not doing my research, then i would learn a bit and lean towards a different combo, sell, buy, rinse, repeat. i was never happy with what mods I did until I got with Pat G and spec'd out a cam that I believed was too small for my liking at first. The end result was a great feel with a cam-only car, plenty of power and torque. My only problem was I had full suspension, but it wasn't adjusted right, and I didn't have a gear in the car. As a few have seen on this site, I have put the car sideways at high speeds numerous times.

[klutch]

chris- thanks for all the parts thru the years of you combos that never made it tto your car haha.

I have the Tv2 in my car- Tommy had it in his camaro for a while, and I feel like the cam was a dog down low when it was cam only, once I got some heads it actually opened up down low.

A custom cam should always outperform a off the shelf cam.

[styles2769]

chris- thanks for all the parts thru the years of you combos that never made it tto your car haha.

I have the Tv2 in my car- Tommy had it in his camaro for a while, and I feel like the cam was a dog down low when it was cam only, once I got some heads it actually opened up down low.

A custom cam should always outperform a off the shelf cam.

Thanks for all your business Mike, even though I went through alot of parts, I never lost money, actually I made money on everything except those shocks you got, I gave those to you for what I got them at.

Where ya been at Mike, haven't heard from ya in awhile.

[klutch]

I have been around. just laying low for a bit.